Wednesday 19th of May 2021

Nope, Not in The Great US of A!

Social Media Says

That sounds like it could be a result of what was in the post, though. If the wealthiest 10% of households can't just pull kids out of public school (and fight to pul their money out as well)... they'd be incentivized to work towards better curriculum, better teacher pay, etc.

This is the truth.
I can't speak for Finland but Belgium also has school choice so if schools want their funding they must perform well. If they don't they will quite literally cease to exist. This is huuuuge. In fact I didn't realize how big a deal it would be until we moved here from the US.


What You Really Think

Also, their textbooks don't have to be approved by the dumbest people in the country.

Bloated administration is a big problem. They are the business consultants of the education world.

It must be nice to live in a country where your politicians aren't bought by the highest bidder.

Everything is better there... I am so surprised people still assume the US of A is the land of promises... Wealth is not sustainable if you neglect large groups of people. Wealth division in the US is insane!

Teachers in Finland make okay/good money, but nothing special. I would agree on curriculum, but in recent years its been slipping because of overly inclusive ideas where kids with special educational needs (like not being able to focus in noisy or big groups) are put into normal classes, disrupting teaching and also ruining it for those kids. Admin isnt too high within schools, but theres a lot of educational bureacracy and policy stuff. And finally, most schools will have geographic pickup areas, which means good schools will attract the affluent which raises home prices and will also attract good teachers, and then the feedback loop is complete. EDIT: To clarify, I didnt mean all inclusion is bad, but that inclusion isnt for everyone and thats where theyve fucked up. Also, expecting a normal class teacher to teach 25-35 kids including those with special needs without the needed assistance. Inclusion has been used as an excuse when they want to save money by cutting special classes/tutors, when the real waste has been in municipal/government admin bloat, not teacher salaries.

50 different states deciding how and what they teach leading to much different curriculum from state to state and even city to city.

Have you ever met a Finn lmao.

In my political philosophy class my professor mentioned that the greatest injustice in wealth distribution is the use of property taxes to fund schools. Its intentional inequality and that has always stuck with me.

This is an issue in Canada too, in no world does it make sense that the funding the school gets should be based in the property values or incomes of the people in the area. My school didn't even offer physics every year, so since I forgot to take physics 12 in grade 11 I couldn't take it in grade 12. Recently talked so some people from the city and they are talking about having full like car mechanics class, medieval smithing, some crazy shit and my school could barely afford to teach anything but the 4 core subjects.

Former teacher in the Midwest/South here. Ohio schools are funded based on local taxes -as in city to city- and were found to be unconstitutionally funded in 1997 by the state supreme court. Despite this ruling 24 years ago, school funding has not changed in the state. In Georgia and Florida, school districts are mostly grouped by county and are thus more adequately funded, although districts still get creative with divvying up students by socioeconomic class using attendance zones. Many districts with urban areas designate a certain number of schools within those urban areas as those with magnet programs, allowing them to require an application process that also tends to push out students from low income families. Its awful, but many districts create these magnet schools to draw in students whose parents have the means to send them to private school -every additional student in the district allows more state funding to be taken by the district.

Like the fact that so many children in the United States are born into this lottery of the American Dream starting with education and access to resources and opportunity based off how affluent neighborhood is unacceptable. The school finance system similar to redlining in impact. Equitable funding of our educational programs through the our state and federal government would be such a step forward in attempting to ensure all children have equal achievement opportunities through improved assess to core educational programs, resources and services.

You just educated me. Thank you.

This is the key.

This. Its just such an obvious fix that I cant help but assume a certain group of people want it stay this way for totally-not-racist reasons.

But then backwoods red states (hi from Arizona) will just continue to choke out their public education systems. The funding needs to be federal.

By country. Have you seen Alabama and Mississippi they desperately need federally funded schools there and teaching requirements and teachers.

>uniformly funded by the state This makes so much sense and would reduce administration costs. This is the Australian model.

Its effed up that only whites were allowed the loans that enabled them to create the suburbs. Then they fed off the teat of the cities to pay for their infrastructure. And now that they have generations of equity built up (which pays for college and a better way of life), they cant pay back into the cities schools. Anybody who says whites havent had an unfair advantage since slavery was abolished is a liar or an idiot. Im white if anybody needs to know. Edit: Im also American. Sorry about making this all about us.

The problem is a lack of willingness to pay taxes by the wealthy for services that benefit the people they view as subhuman. Property taxes keep the rich people money in rich neighborhoods. If our rich people cared about the nation we wouldnt have this problem, but we also wouldnt be America anymore. The country, if you consider it one, is an irreparable pile of shit that is a single election away from total collapse into authoritarian barbarism. You may as well try to ban private schools, as that is equally impossible as getting rich people to pay taxes or any other solution you can think of that might help.

When I read the part about rich families having to invest in schools to make sure their kids went to good schools I thought of this exactly. Rich people here invest in the schools their kids go to. Poor people don't live in those zip codes.

They just need to stop funding individual school districts with property taxes. Just fund at the state level and redistribute by number of kids.

It's not the property tax per se. It is the local property taxes staying in the local area, such that you can have Palo Alto bordering East Palo Alto with such differing outcomes. In most countries you'd pay the taxes to the State or Nation level, then (re)distribute them across the State / Nation. This inequity also drives lots of other problems in the US; libraries, schools, police are mostly funded on this small local level which entrenches inequality.

Yuhhp im in one of the ones listed in the link. Although it's a bit different, we have the same subjects, grading system atleast from 1-6. And its all still free.

Yeah but you dont pay to attend them.

Not only that, but non-EU students still have to pay tuition at any school in Finland. It ain't a lot compared to the US, but I pay around 6k/year in tuition at a university in Finland.

I appreciate you actually performing the \]pretty easy-to-do\] fact-checking for this post.

Yes, out of thousands of schools there are probably 10 international schools that have tuition, those are mainly for the children of international professionals temporarily in Finland.

As a fin i can confirm. We are all actually fish living in a sea pretending that there would be a country named Finland in this sea.

Haista Vittu!

The actual 'place of Finland' is just Eastern Sweden. Helsinki is in Eastern Sweden and when people fly there it's not like they would notice. World maps are altered as it's a U.N conspiracy to keep people believing in Finland. And the idea that an entire country is made up seems so bizarre that nobody would ever believe it, making it easy to do. Finland's main company, Nokia, is owned by the Japanese and they're a main player in this. Now as for 'why' people would want to invent Finland as a country that's a bit more in depth and there's a few reasons as to why Sweden and Russia go along with it but it's mostly to do with Japanese fishing rights. You see the Japanese love their sushi but tight fishing regulations and public outcry mean they can't fish as much as they want. So after the Cold War they agreed with Russia to create a 'landmass' called Finland where they could fish. After all, if people thought there was a country there nobody would expect the Japanese to be harpooning whales would they? The fish is then transported through Russia where a small percentage of the food is given to the population, (they were of course starving at the time of Finland being invented), and then is shipped to Japan under the disguise of 'Nokia' products. Japan is one of the worlds largest importers of Nokia products despite the fact that basically nobody there owns a Nokia phone. Just look at Nokia's ]old logo](); they're not even hiding it. Is it any wonder that the Japanese say Santa is from Finland? Lastly is the homage that the Japanese gave to this entire conspiracy theory. What do fish have? Fins. Therefore they named their imaginary country Finland.

There he is. There he goes again. Look, everyone! He posted it once again! Isn't he just the funniest guy around?! Oh my God. I can almost see your pathetic overweight frame glowing in the dark, lit by your computer screen which is the only source of light in your room, giggling like a girl as you once again type your little "finland isn't real" quip. I imagine you little shit laughing so hard as you click it that you drop your Doritos on the floor, but it's okay, your mother will clean it up in the morning. Oh that's right. Did I fail to mention? You live with your mother. You are a fat fucking fuckup, she's probably so sick of you already. So sick of having to do everything for you all goddamn day, every day, for a grown man who spends all his time on reddit posting about a nordic country. Just imagine this. She had you, and then she thought you were gonna be a scientist or an astronaut or something grand, and then you became a "finland isn't real" poster. A pathetic unfunny "finland isn't real" poster. She probably cries herself to sleep everyday thinking about how bad it is and how she wishes she could just disappear. She can't even try to talk with you because everything you say is "FINLAND ISN'T REAL FINLAND ISN'T REAL EASTERN SWEDEN LMAO". You've become a parody of your own self. Amd that's all you are. A sad little man laughing in the dark by himself as he prepares to indulge in the same old dance that he's done a million times now. And that's all you'll ever be.

Checked it. Also I know Finland. Have friends there, and visited it several times. So in short: > *"Only a small number of independent schools exist in Finland, and even they are all publicly financed. None is allowed to charge tuition fees. There are no private universities, either. This means that practically every person in Finland attends public school, "* Source.

Im from Finland. Yes, we have some private schools but they are very rare. They are not elite schools for the rich. More likely some niche schools that have different principles, such as Steiner schools. Charging fees for tuition is not illegal here. All this discussion is a bit distracted from the Finnish perspective. We try to take care of each other, we do not have class-based society.

Is there any truth to it at all?

A quick Google affirms it? Supposedly public schools exist, but aren't allowed to charge either?

]Wrong.]() While there are a small number of independent schools, none is allowed to charge tuition fees, and they're even publicly funded. You can easily google "private schools in finland" and you'll get plenty of links that debunk your comment. If you want to misinform/discredit, back it up. EDIT: I also found it very interesting how quickly you get upvoted compared to other comments made at the same time. One single page refresh gave you like 30 upvotes. Hmmmm I wonder...

Also, Finland has a single university at 86 in the top 200 universities in the world. The u.s. Has one of the most predatory college tuition practices in the world, but has like 70 universities on the top 200. Clearly it's a little more nuanced than "money bad".

Their education is probably still better then ours though.

That tuition is something like 50 per year, so not free but close to - especially since the Finnish state pays students around 250 per month to study.

????? I went to a "private school" and it was free. Stop spewing bullshit when you know nothing about the matter. The only people who tuition fees that are being charged are University level students from outside EU countries.

Even private schools are not allowed to have tuition fees. We don't have them. >There are few private schools. The founding of a new private comprehensive school requires a decision by the Council of State. When founded, private schools are given a state grant comparable to that given to a municipal school of the same size. **However, even in private schools, the use of tuition fees is strictly prohibited, and selective admission is prohibited, as well: private schools must admit all its pupils on the same basis as the corresponding municipal school.** In addition, private schools are required to give their students all the education and social benefits that are offered to the students of municipal schools. That said, if you're a non-EU citizen you have to pay tuition.

> The claim: In some countries, charging for education is not allowed - for example, in Finland. >Reality Check verdict: It's true that in Finland it is not permitted to charge fees for mainstream education - and only 2% of its schools are run by non-governmental bodies. BBC Reality Check was not able to find another example of a country with this rule. ]Source is BBC](). Wheres your source? Its easily fact-checked right?

How dare you debunk communist propaganda in *'White People Twitter'*!

Yep. This thread is classic bullshit that can be disproved in 10 sec with a google search.

Are you a citizen though? It is only free for Finnish people.

So what you mean is "iT'S nEveR hAPpeNd!".

ONVIOUSLY outlawing tuition includes the concept of PRIVATE schools become unfunded or being publically funded but then any kids poor or rich could go. This would cause funding for schools to move from local to state and then federal, so all money collected from taxes would then be equally distributed to all schools and all schools would be of equal quality and ANY kids could go to ANY school and it would be the same regardless.

Asia isnt a country.

It might be that in Finland only the 1% opt out of the public school system rather than the 10% opting out of the public school system.

Mission failed, well get them next time.

Personally I don't know of anyone who went to study abroad outside of an exchange student program, but even then it's later on in school life such as uni etc. As a sidenote, good luck getting your kid to go to school abroad in the early years since the Finnish language might as well not exist outside of Finland, best case scenario is you're from a Swedish speaking family and go to Sweden to study.

Low density homogeneous population in an exceptionally resource-rich country, what's there not to be happy about except for maybe the cold weather?

Nope. Nothing is ever that simple. In California after decades of trying to make schools more equitable, schools recieve almost all their funding from the state. Only about 1/5th of school funding comes from local property taxes and it's done nothing to make educational attainment and life trajectory more evenly distributed.

Cause smart people like good music.

Or just I hate the US.

]deleted].

Definitely some far-left communism shit if you ask them, yes.

You joke, but Ive seen this exact argument when US citiesegions mention combining, I dont pay $$$ in taxes to allow my kids to intermingle with _____ kids.

There would have been 62 but Matti and Riku moved to Sweden.

Do you not have a response about the content of the post?

TIL Finland's entire population is made up of US dollars.

>Its a lot harder to teach a class when 50% of the kids dont speak the language This only applies to very few regions in the US. >Also, Finlands population is $5million. Roughly the size of half of NY Economies of scale make efficient systems *easier* to implement with larger populations, not harder.

Idk dog, I go to a university in Finland that teaches 50% of the students in english and 50% swedish. And there are both Finnish language only and Swedish language only schools, and mixed language schools. Although I'm not exactly defending this article, because as a non-EU citizen, I DO have to pay tuition. And that keeps immigration down. But the language issue doesn't seem apparent to me. I saw less language variance growing up in California that I do in Finland.

Also teachers investing in your stonks.

That parking spot is free. Communism!

Kinda like how leftists call everyone slightly conservative a fascist and a nazi.

Of course it resonates. It is a lie custom built to resonate.

Its not a draft. Finland has conscription for all men aged 18-28. Most have to serve only six months, some upto a year. Most men go there right away when they are 18. The service can be moved if you would like to go to college first or you have health problems. Not that inhumane of a process at all. And Finland is the only Nordic country that does this, the others have similar systems to the US.

Good, you're less likely to vote for a war mongering president if it's _your_ ass on the line.

USA -> Finland transplant here, quality of life is so so so much better here, dunno why that's a con in your eyes. Weather isn't for everyone, but damn am I enjoying spring right now.

3-4 decades.

Merica is the size of 70 Finlands with their entire country run by corrupt politicians that are legally allowed to take bribes in order to prevent change, and they have also mezmerised their voters into thinking one party (out of 2 total which is insane in of itself) is going to solve their problems (which they never do) and the other party is the literal enemy. PLUS their politicians have tricked the average person to be angry at the corporations instead of the politicians taking the bribes, so they get away scot free. 'Merica shouldn't give two fucks about Finlands education system, because the entire country of Finland wouldn't be big enough to warrant being called a State in the US. These comparissons to islands and minor countries (like how New Zeeland reacted to Covid compared to US and Europe) is intellectually daft and dishonest as fuck.

Nah ofc not. Why would that be a thing? It is a free country. Also tuition isnt outlawed there.

Not really but doesn't happen too much either as the education system is pretty damn good. Private schools aren't outlawed though and they can take tuition fees, so the tweet lies. However, going to a private school, usually inteenational or steiner school, is rather rare even among the higher socio-economi classes.

Nope, but why would you? Finnish education is REALLY good.

No, it's the generation that decided to call out the bullshit rather than pretending it's normal.

Yeah the rich fucks who insist on being special and different with special private schools and a whole separate system for their kids did a lot of kicking and screaming to opt out of normal society.

Well firstly, there are no private schools here in Finland and the level of education is almost 100% the same everywhere so no your not wrong but not really right eather Edit: was wrong, there are a few private schools here 2.

Right? God forbid the filthy poors get their generational poverty all over your kids.

So you have no foundation for you personality other than being better than others, sounds about white.

How does free education have anything to do with independence?

Lol, sure they are. Wtf does that even mean? They're in the EU. Defiant compared to who?

What is your problem with the EU? It is proven to be quite a good thing, seeing how much damage it caused to Britain after leaving.

There are private schoold but they are rather rare and aren't generally seen as "better" than the public school system. Public school system does have an inclusivity problem in the fact that the kids are usually assigned to the nearest school, meaning that rich neighborhoods have their kids go to school together and poor neighbourhoods have theirs. However the socio-economic status of the neighbourhoods doesn't affect the funding of individual schools, so the rich and poor neighbourhoods are pretty similar in terms of education etc.

They're congratulating them for making it illegal to price gouge poor kids out of a decent education. The rich kids still get the good schools, but the poor kids get to come too is all.

You can only choose your childs teacher if you have the money. Most people dont have that luxury. Isnt it better for everyone to have access to good teachers, without being able to choose them than having poorly funded/trainedesources teachers for everyone who cant afford to choose a better teacher?

You're a bad person and you could feel bad.

She might have better merit based opportunities, but the child of the factory owner will have much better opportunities overall, on average.