Thursday 25th of March 2021

Religion.

Social Media Says

The Sikhs are the ultimate bros.
As someone that lives in an area that is bursting with them I will say this: Only people whose homes I would walk into that I dont know when invited. Without a doubt to my atheist, secular eyes they are the best practitioners of their Faith. If I am to judge a faith by its followers then they are the Gold Standard. And I dig the color coordination with clothing the men do.

Sikh move, bro.


What You Really Think

Sikh advice : If you can, save your progress in the nearest Cheikhpoint.

Not sure that's true. I'm gay and the other day I was holding my bf hands on the street. Some Sikh looked so aggressively at us with his eyes wide open like he's gonna attack any time.

At some point in time, morality was sequestered by religions, and the "burn the nay-sayers" part was so effective that to this day there are loads of people who, like you say, associate *their* religion woth moral rightfulness.

Ultra religious see the need to do good as prescribed by their religion, but at this level of devotion, also see themselves as the bastions of gods word and think they must fight to make society reflect that teaching.

The global slave trade centered around the notion that you can only enslave people of a different religion. in a disturbing way this can be seen as a way to spread religion as many converted for the purpose of not wanting to be enslaved.

Yeah, Ive noticed a lot of devout Christians are full of bigotry and judgement, especially recently since they feel empowered to say their thoughts out loud. I feel like their belief that Jesus died for all their sins has them convinced that they have a get out of jail (hell) free card and they can act how they want as long as they continue to pray and go to Sunday mass. Theyre pro life but want the death penalty, think god will keep them safe from covid but need ARs to protect themselves from bad guys, its all hypocrisy. Ive also realized that w the US being one of the most capitalist countries, it has conditioned people to contradict religious text in the name of consumerism.

Also it's always such a coincidence that the religious doctrine and ultimately the word of God always aligns with their interests.

Moral superiority.

Or that because they go to church they are somehow absolved of everything dickish they do.

Like the guy at my school with Christian stickers all over his car and he banged a student and the other christian teachers defended him (until he confessed) and said he couldnt do that because he was a Christian. After he confessed they were like it was a witch hunt and she was 16 so it was ok.

I think they start out as dicks. They just use religion as a cover.

People who have devoted their lives to the words without really understanding the message. There are assholes of all beliefs.

In fairness, ultra religious people *actually* *read* their religious material. And their holy book always tells them not only to be a dick, but specifically *how* to be a dick. Abrahamic religions I know are especially bad, with non-condemnation for genocide and slavery always hidden among the pages.

Its what god wants me to do.

There's something very wrong with religious people. I once had a preacher shouting at me in the street asking why I think it's okay to kill children. I didn't respond. He then started yelling at other people that I'm okay with child murder. He was basically following me at this point, I still haven't said a word. I decided to knock his bible out of his hand. He jumped on me and tried to make a self-proclaimed "citizens arrest".

I'm much moralester than you and alot gooder and I don't agree at all!

> just because they identify as religious, that makes them the moralest and goodest person in the world. Hell we are to the point where even non-religious people a priori think they are better than religious people simply for not having religion (see r/athiesm). That is at the root of it all in my opinion. Assholes will look for any reason to put themselves above other people. Race/ethnicity or national origin, wealth, religion, vegan or not vegan, it doesn't matter how trivial as long as they are better than someone else without actually having to do anything.

Take their land, then kill all the men and take their daughters and make them into concubines. \-Old Testimate.

]removed].

>some Dick George Carlin vibes.

How'd you work that one out? Pretty sure every economic and political structure has it's fair share of dicks and promotes being a dick from time to time.

This sub has been victim to a huge outbreak of colorblindness. It's very fascinating, I blame covid.

Its funny because the OP is very obviously a Sikh and the people in the comments are painting all religions with the widest brushes. Many of their criticisms dont even apply, or at least not in the way they posit them, to non-Abrahamic religion.

Religion was the original politics.

It is precisely a form of control. And they can profit from it.

Every religion has its ultraconservatives that thrive on being dicks to people. It's almost as if it's not the religion that's the real problem, but the extreme conservatism.

Sadly, when the people who are wrongly attracted to the idea that their sins can be absolved with an internal monolog, they try less.

I don't know who's going to hell or not, and it's not for me to decide, but I do know that I need to love everybody, so I just try to do that.

From my experience, there are simple Christians who love people and keep their religion mostly to themselves and share their beliefs if asked. Then there are the American "Chreeeeestians". If they start a conversation with, "As a Chreeeestian...", "Were Chreeeeestians, and we believe..." RUN.

Its incredible to me how many people can selectively choose parts of the Bible to believe in and still claim to be Christian. For example, the first chapter of Romans is used a lot to judge gay people. The next chapter, literally a couple of sentences later, is a strong condemnation of those who judge others, calling them out for their hypocrisy and saying that God does not show favoritism. Is almost be impressed how they manage to ignore stuff like that, if it werent so awful.

Christianity and American Christianity seem to have become two totally different religions.

I think the issue here is that moderate/ liberal Christians are either just apathetic to the more conservative elements of their own religion or just allow crazies to hog the microphone. Either way, people like you should do more to control the narrative and police the kind of crazy rhetoric that comes from Christians that want a theocracy. Recently, there seems to be a lot of intersectionality between Evangelicals, authoritarians, and neo-Nazi rhetoric all stemming from an extreme nationalist and authoritarian political ideology. Whether thats a new phenomenon or something thats always lurked, I cant say for sure. If it was better handled from within your communities, everyone else would know that the fringe is just that. People not to be taken seriously. But it doesnt appear to be fringe. Also, I dont want this coming off as an insult or bashing you. I think the world needs more people like you. :).

Well, as a former believer, still somewhat connected due to circumstances and upbringing, **WE NEED YOU, AND THOSE LIKE YOU TO BE LOUDER THAN THE ASSHOLES. WE NEED THE ACTUAL LOVE TO ACTUALLY COMPETE AGAINST THE HATE IN A LOUD AND OVERWHELMINGLY CLEAR WAY. WE NEED YOU TO POLICE YOURSLEVES BETTER, AND HOLD BAD ACTORS VERY MUCH ACCOUNTABLE. WE NEED YOU "GOOD CHRISTIANS" TO UNLEASH A TIDAL WAVE OF CHRISTS TEACHING OF LOVE, IN ACTION, UPON THIS WORLD, IN SUCH A WAY THAT THINGS ARE ACTUALLY IMPROVED, AND IT IS UNIGNORABLE.** I want to believe again, I need to believe again, I did not want to lose my faith, but I just could not sustain it, and "The Holy Spirit" was unable to sustain me, despite all my efforts. Show me, show others like me, but most importantly, show the world. Because "the other guys" have been winning.

RE: 6 Right now, I am of the opinion that God would prefer to see his children be happy. Like any mortal parent He hopes that His children follow in His footsteps. But, if they are not happy in the family business, then they should find out where they are happy. Not everybody can be a physician. Also, choose you this day whom ye will serve... and all that. We are supposed to choose. Says right there in the Bible. That means that everybody can choose, and we cannot choose for them, and should not force them. (As long as they are not hurting others, of course.).

Yea, as a former follower, I totally get that. The basic lessons are all fine and about being respectful. Somehow people have imposed their own hatred and bigotry over it and we've arrived at this. I think they just want an external thing to blame for their own misguided beliefs.

Yeah, man, be real cool if other Christians thought for a moment about these ideals, as opposed to letting priests get off Scott free for touching kids (would know, happened to me) or got over the whole "you're gay or you want an abortion, so you're the devil". Christianity now a days is a joke, and I say that as a formally devout Christian. I know there are way more examples and way more fucked up things that happen thanks to Christianity, but taking a shit on company time doesn't give me a ton of ad-hoc research time to craft a well researched point, all I can give are my opinions and my experiences. Nothing against you, I'm sure you're a swell dude, but my experience is that religion breeds assholes, and that's from years of church going, private schooling, alter serving, you name it.

I respect what you're taking from christianity, but I can't say I can fault others who are taking different things from it. There's a lot there, and it isn't all inherently good. Everyone makes it what they want it to be.

Because the other half of your book defines all the reasons to exclude, kill, or stone people. Is it really surprising that not everybody who reads your book selects the 50% of the content you choose as relevant?

Never have I loaded and unloaded a downvote bullet faster than when I reached number 6 on the list, lol.

4 should read "Don't be a dick. If you find yourself being one, apologize *and mitigate harm for your dickishness, and stop being a dick*." Apologies are worthless without restitution and behavior change.

What you wrote here is better than Christianity. Many of us are culturally Christian and get a sense of community and meaning from that. But the Christian religion has been exposed as a fraud.

Most religions are reducible to believing ancient myths about supernatural beings. Most religions, including Christianity, use faith for its belief system. Consider this faith model and how many other gods and supernatural things we can accept with it Since faith can be used to justify the Christian belief, the Muslim belief, the Hindu belief, we come to see there is nothing that can't be justified by appealing to faith. Since using faith, we can justify anything, it can lead to mutually exclusive, contrary positions and incorrect conclusions. It is demonstrably unreliable and not a reliable pathway to truth. If something can be used as a justification for everything then it shouldn't be used as a justification for anything. It is not a testament to the truth of something, but a testament to what someone wants to believe to be true, despite a lack of evidence, This reveals the true source: deep and fundamental emotional attachment. Once we have an emotional connection we are more prone to lean into it psychologically. Feelings don't make a good case for God. Religion isn't about logic, it's about social ties, tradition, faith, and entire belief systems forming identity and individual worldview based on emotions. Religion is ultimately dependent on belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die. It therefore has no reality check. Individual interpretations are uniquely armoured against criticism, or against anything that might stop it from spinning into extreme absurdity, extreme denial of reality and extreme, grotesque immorality. Almost as if it's impossible to find consistency in a delusion.

1 to 6 are values I have as an atheist, so those are just human values, not Christian values? It's a bit like claiming "being hungry for pizza" is a Christian value?

Ah, yes, Christianity. I quote: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Timothy 2:12 So progressive. Hahah. There are endless examples. I quote: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law." Corinthians 14:34 I repeat. Much progressive. Such kindness. Wow. Inb4 the cherry pickers come and defend it. " But But... That specific part We just pick whatever we feel like don't you see? ".

I am guessing you stick with the myth of Christianity rather than the blood soaked history of actual Christianity.

Republicans love money. You cant be a Christian and love money. Therefore.

A big problem isn't people believing or following their religion, it is trying to show other people that they are devout. They spend all of their time putting on a show and acting for their fellow believers when the relationship and judgement that matters is the private one between the individual and their god. Go ahead and believe in God but be very wary in believing what man says about God.

That assumption is not wrong if that is the message being presented from your pulpit three times a week. When the pastor says in no uncertain terms that it is impossible to be a follower of Christ and vote for Democrats, then its not hard to see where this belief comes from.

Why does a religion need to be used as THE way to live? Why do we need a reason to be good, hey behave or go to hell? Why must so many people think that nonreligious people have no idea of the proper why to live a good life? Why are religious people so judgemental?

Pastor here, youre 100% right. Love cringing on airplanes when people ask me what I do. I just love being lumped in with the weirdos.

This is essentially my church. I'm not religious but my wife is a bit. So glad to have found a church that peaches kindness and helping people above all else. They're also lgbtq friendly. The pastor's son is trans and a very well respected leader in the church.

Yet you condemn people that arent christened to an eternity in hell.

Personally, I'm fine with people love, or you who just take the bare minimum ethics and ham-fist it into whatever religion you were raised in. That said even tho I think it's better then being a homophobic prick it's also essentially the same as making your own religion. I don't see it any different then scientology or the other off-brand christian religions.

Trevor Noah said it best (albeit about the Republican Party), why is it that your religion seems to attract the worst people? It may seem simple to you and I understand why you would be frustrated when people associate you with the worst of your fellow Christians but its also fairly simple to see the toxicity of Christianity. Trump, Benny Hinn, the Capitol Rioters, David Duke, the anti-LGBTQ rights crowd (your point 6 is funny, but we cant pretend that anti-LGBTQ stance is exclusive to Westboro Baptist). There are many, many examples of how the Christian faith has made a negative impact on todays society. Dont be frustrated with us for pointing it out, you gotta do some internal work first.

Pretty sugar coated. What about dont use a condom cuz theyre stupid. If youre 12 get rapped and pregnant dont have an abortion even if it kills u. Even though the Bible NEVER mentions abortion. What about sin all you want if you confess youre good. If your spouse beats the shit out of you dont dare get divorced. Dont forget that alter boy is cute lets pull his pants down.

I fear you are the minority, friend.

I'm pretty sure a big thing they press too is that it is not our (humans) place to judge people only God can do that.

All sins are equal in the eyes of god. We are all sinners. Jesus died so we may be forgiven and achieve eternal glory. Except if youre gay. That sin is the worst one. Confused the shit out of me when I was a little kid and was ultimately the reason I left organized religion altogether.

If you look at most holy books, they will at some point have a kill all nonbelievers portion hidden behind the recruiting section with all the nice stuff about respecting everybody. As it turns out if you write your rules to say both sides you can always in bad faith defend the passage relevant to your wants.

This is objectively not true. Im Jewish and I can tell you for a fact according to Judaism non Jews have an easier time of getting into heaven. Jews have to follow 613 laws to get in, non Jews only have to follow 7. Edit.

I'm sorry, my friend. You know nothing about Judaism. Let me just list a few non-jews that are essential the Jewish faith: Rahab, a Canaanite woman and hero of the Jewish religion. Ruth, a Moabite woman and hero of the Jewish religion. Melchizedek, non-jew and a priest of God. Both Joseph and Moses married non-jewish women (Moses a midianite and Joseph married an egyptian). Jethro, a midianite and the father in-law of Moses and the creator of Sanhedrin (very important to Israel). Caleb, the great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, and Othniel, his brother. Shamgar was a non-israelite judge in Israel. Jael, a hero of Israel was a Kenite. Job was from Edom. Obed-Edom, Widow of Zarapeth, Uriah and Bathsheba, Namaan. The list goes on.

Yeah...if youre gonna assert that Judaism is nonviolent then go read the Torah. It actually has more verses pertaining to violence than the Quran.

That's not really true. Nowhere does judaism says that.

Dude thats literally not true. Noah wasnt Jewish and the Torah calls him literally perfect. Job wasnt Jewish and he was G-ds favourite. In fact, Judaism and Sikhism are the few religions that say you dont have to be x y z to get the best possible outcomes.

Holy fuck no it's not but lets all upvote this anti-semitic shit. Gj reddit, internet bastion of nazi scum.

You should get therapy from a professional and not use religion. it's like saying you use magic crystals to fix your health issues.

Thats a very naive take. Bible has many verses that promote violence and hate.

Its okay most of them havent read the book which is why they think its so good. Most pastors like to skip over the selling your daughter into slavery bits ect. I remember learning about how christianity is peace and love and then I read the actual book. Made it to my third mass killing before giving up.

\*taps mic\* dhats de joke.

What kind of books are you reading?

Its actually a lot harder than you think. I bet most people thinking the same thing here are dicks in their own way and they deny/justify it to the point where their dickish behavior is normalized and desensitized. Legitimate, truly nice people, are *extremely rare.*.

Hey man you're reading "The Holly bibble".

You next have read the book distributed by the hard ones. What author was the correct one. They say to serve others and live peacefully with them. The Bible says to stone them if *his* people don't follow his laws.

They follow whatever aligns with their already manifested beliefsystem.

They don't. As with the other major religions, they ignore parts they don't like and push the parts they do like onto others. It's religion 101 in today's time.

Convenience.

Whatever their religious representatives and very good brains tell them.

For a lot of younger ex-Christians, its pretty easy to just follow the teachings in the New Testament. Like this: Do I believe that the Earth was made in 6 days, as described in Genesis? Of course not. But do I believe that Jesus (as described in the Bible) is the ideal model of how we should strive to be and treat one another? You bet I do. Was Jesus actually able to heal people with divine magic? Almost certainly not. He probably was a good practitioner of rudimentary medicine, and was compassionate enough to *try* and heal peoples physical ailments, while heavily leaning on religious/philosophical reinforcement. While magic isnt real, the Placebo Effect very much is.

> because of a mistranslation I love how christian apologists are now pushing this narrative. maybe just don't be christians and don't believe in some shitty old book that is full of bigotry instead of pretending it's actually a good source for anything.

Exactly, it's like when muslims quote Muhammed who said "killing one innocent is like killing all humanity" as proof of how peaceful Islam is...unfortunately the definition of "not innocent" was very wide for him, he personally killed many of those non-innocents!

How do you get that from worship Yahweh or suffer? Its the first commandment, Yahweh kills countless people enforcing it, and Jesus promises to kill everyone who doesnt do it. Thats seriously being a dick.

There are exceptions to every rule.

I dont understand, I think?

Correlation and causation. Are you a dick who happens to believe in this ideology or are you a dick because of this ideology. This seems to get forgotten.

They hated u/JohnnyFallDown because he told them the truth.

That's what happens when you take a fairy tale and try to pretend it is real.

Why are people treating cancel Culture as a new thing? Boycott and walkouts had existed since the industrial ages. Besides didn't the Boomer generation chemical castrate a WW2 Hero just because he was gay.

I love how a lot of people who are scared that their words and actions now have consequences attribute this to cancel culture. It's not that people all of a sudden got prissy. It was never OK to slap your server on the ass. You were ALWAYS a dickhead. It's just that now you're being called out on it.

>love and tolerance and then they hate on and try to cancel everyone who doesnt agree with their beliefs and opinions. This really isnt that hypocritical. Only of you believe that love and tolerance has to extend to ever single person ad infinitum. But that doesnt make any sense, you can expect them to tolerate the ppl who would see them erased, oppressed, or even dead. You have a line where your acceptance ends - so do they. That simple. Edit: and you can act like it's new or more prominent now, but that isnt true either. I dont mean the red scare, I mean laws and social acceptability to deny certain groups equal rights.

At least it's not literal and physical cancelling. Religion propogates literal cancelling i.e. medieval execution types bloodshed and the whole gig. Edit: I'm in no way supporting the cancel culture, at least not in the predicament it is today. It's toxic as hell. But it's more tolerable than the earlier versions I guess.

Uh... thats not what cherry picking means.

Athiests are the worst religious people Or Atheists are worse than religious people?

That's the worst way you could've voiced that opinion lol.

Youre right, people who arent religious at all tend to be pretty bad at being religious.

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